How To Repair Inground Pool Steel Wall

TonyV

Hullo, I bought a house with an inground pool five years ago, merely North of Boston. The pool was congenital in the late '70's. xvi X 32 rectangle steel wall construction with vinyl liner and fiberglass (I recall) steps. The liner is the beaded type with aluminum combination bead receiver and bull nose coping. I actually have all the original documentation from the pool. It was manufactured by Weatherking.

4 years ago, when I went to open the pool, the shallow end only had a couple of inches of water - it looked like the liner leaked at some pinholes in or near the seam between the side wall role and the flooring. I had a truck of h2o delivered to fill the pool and I managed to patch the holes with underwater patches. It's held up well, and I've had to patch a couple more holes over the past few seasons, but the pool never lost very much h2o over the winters.

This year, the water drained out again over the winter, leaving simply a few inches in the shallow end. I am planning on replacing the liner myself, with help from friends and someone who has done liner replacements himself.

I had always noticed a lilliputian rust near the skimmer. When I removed the face plate from the skimmer (Hayward wide-mouth) to prepare to remove the erstwhile liner, information technology looks like the steel wall has been in direct contact with the pool water, because there is a lot of rust. At that place was a gasket between the face plate and the liner, but it does not comprehend the exposed edges of the steel wall. The water that flows into the skimmer has been in straight contact with the steel wall. There is some rust harm and office of the steel is quite decayed. I assume this was not installed properly. I want to repair the steel wall earlier replacing the skimmer and liner. I was thinking I could cut out a department of the steel around the skimmer opening and put a new slice of material in, securing it with counter-sunk stainless steel self-tapping screws or bolts.

My questions are:

- Do skimmers have a way of sealing the border of the steel wall so that water does not come up in contact with it?
- Should I employ a piece of steel to repair the wall, or is there a h2o-friendly textile that I should utilize, such as some kind of strong plastic?

My 2nd result is regarding the steps. The steps beetle exterior the perimeter of the pool rectangle (every bit opposed to projecting into the pool). They are white, are bull nosed at the top (to meet up with the coping) and I believe are fabricated out of fiberglass. They appear to be the original steps and have begun to crack and fade. Since I am replacing the liner, I thought this would be a skillful time to replace the steps. From what I tin tell, it looks like the merely mechanical connectedness is the screws that concord the liner in place. There is a faceplate strip forth both sides the lesser edge of the steps that screws through the strip, through the liner and steps and thread into the steel.

My questions are:

- Are these steps manufactured to some standard dimensions and so that I can simply drop a new set into place and the support structure underneath with be acceptable?
- Does anyone know of a practiced source to buy a set up of steps as a homeowner as opposed to a pool contractor?

Thanks for whatsoever communication yous accept.

- Tony

waste

Tony, welcome to TFP!!

I've done what you're talking about a couple dozen times

With either the skimmer replacement or the stais, you'll need to bust out a section of deck surrounding them

Considering of the economic system, the company I work for is doing more 'rehabs' than new pool builds - some pics would assist :wink:

The stairs

should be a standard size (6" or 8') only... getting a new stride in in that location hands depends on whether the original PB installed the puddle 'square'

- if they didn't, in that location will exist a lot of work to go the stairs in :rant:

You also need to dig to the surface area downwardly to the bottom of the panels, break up the 'ground' for ~ two' past the stairs - they are bolted all down the steel panels that they attach to and you need room to make the replacement.

It might be best to let a puddle visitor do this but, if y'all desire to DIY, I can tell you how and what to do/ sentinel out for 8)

TonyV

Thanks for the replies waste and silcozot. Great pictures silcozot! What an amazing transformation from hole in the ground to backyard paradise.

waste: Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure how much securing was done under the deck. Equally information technology turns out, I talked to local puddle company and they are coming out on Mon to check out my situation and give me an guess for the steps - both to supplant them for me, and also to observe a suitable replacement for me to install.
When I was at their store, they showed me a skimmer repair panel that is fabricated for my state of affairs - when the steel panel is deteriorated around the skimmer. It is pre-cut for a broad-mouth skimmer and screws into place over the existing steel. I didn't pare back the liner enough to see how much of the panel is deteriorated, then I am going to wait until I know how much damage there is.

Depending on the price that they quote me, I may cease up attempting to do this myself. I take a friend in the construction business concern that owns his own bobcat mini excavator, etc. and he has worked on pools before.

At present I'yard just trying to determine how far I want to have this: If I'yard replacing the liner, and possibly the stairs, I may want to replace the bead receiver/coping since information technology is old and faded. I've heard the painting it does not work well and the only way to refresh it is to send if out to accept it powder coated. If I were to replace the dewdrop receiver/coping with just bead receiver to eventually put in a paver deck, I could just use coping stones, right?

I will try to upload some pictures later on today.

Thanks over again,
Tony

waste

Tony, I oasis't seen the precut panels you lot spoke of, but it'southward a good thought :thumleft:

What we'll do if the panel is too far deteriorated, is cut a steel patch for that area and motility the skimmer over a few feet (cutting a new opening in a stable part of the wall)

Please let us know what the pool co has to say and we'll review your options :-D

silcozot

Casey wrote: Did you DIY?[/quote]

Yes, my Bobcat and I spent all our free time last year, without bob I would not have tried!

the merely other assistance I had was with the concrete fourteen or so yards!

must say we are happy happy with the results, can't get my married woman out of the pool!

TonyV

Thanks for the info, waste.

The pool company owner came out yesterday forenoon - he does all of the site visits and estimates.

I had asked about the step replacement. I wanted to see how much he wanted to replace them, or how much he could sell me a new set for, and I would do all the work and replace them myself. He thinks replacing the stairs is as well much work and besides costly - and new steps would endure similar wear from sun, chemicals, etc. Instead, his recommendation is to install a new dewdrop receiver on peak of the existing aluminum coping (after re-lagging the coping to the steel underneath) and continuing the new bead receiver onto the top of the steps. The new dewdrop receiver would so accept an edge to accept a cantilever edge physical pour - right over peak of the aluminum coping and the height edge of the fiberglass steps. A new liner would be fabricated and installed right over the fiberglass steps.

I questioned the durability of pouring concrete over these other materials, as they seem like they may be discipline to motion, but he assured me they have done this type of work before. They work with ane bricklayer company (and have for the by 30+ years - they are both family-owned businesses) for all of the pool decks they install.

The company would also repair the steel that is rusted out and install a new skimmer. He said that the new skimmers attach to the inside of the steel wall, so that the gasket is on either side of the liner, not on 1 side of the steel and on one side of the liner - thereby keeping water abroad from the steel. I can't picture how that would work, but maybe there is a way to do that.

I asked if there was some fashion I could do some of the labor to save on the toll - and I would take completely understood if he said he didn't desire to run a job that way. He said that if he'south replacing the line, he wants his crew to prep the puddle - and I empathize that completely. He said when he plans a job with a new deck beingness installed, he replaces all the plumbing, simply to ensure information technology won't demand to be dug up to exist repaired. He said it would exist fine if I ran the new plumbing myself, so that is at least a little scrap a tin salve on.

Also, he said the job could be done in two parts - all of the pool work now, and wait on the pour of the physical deck until either the fall or next spring. The merely issues I meet there is having the new bead receiver up so loftier and having to stride over it to get in and out of the pool, and the loop-loc prophylactic encompass would need to residuum against the new bead receiver.

I should take an judge in the adjacent day or then. I have a bad feeling it's going to be a lot more I originally planned for.
But, when I consider the price of my ownership new steps, renting equipment to demo the concrete deck around the steps and digging downwards, demoing the physical footer at the base of operations of the stairs, so re-installing the whole thing and renting a physical mixer, etc.... I wonder how much that could end of being. I had planned to practice something with the pool deck, but that was going to be several years down the line when I tin can put aside enough money for it...

I have some pics I will post a petty later this evening or tomorrow morning time.

Thanks for your fourth dimension and interest in my story... I will permit yous know when I hear almost the estimate...

-Tony

waste

Tony, tin you please 'bump' this tomorrow then I retrieve to respond? I'thousand trounce correct now and want to requite this my total attention - it's been a couple of rough weeks at work, I've been working 10+ hour days and I need to go to bed :wink:

TonyV

<<Bumped>>

I got the judge from the pool company yesterday. I approximate I shouldn't exist, but I am surprised at the cost.
If the price of merely doing the work on the puddle too covered the new deck cascade, I'd exist happy.
I don't blame them at all, it is a large amount of labor and pools are kind of a luxury item, so their price is probably fair.
Simply, me being a huge DIYer, I call up I am going to tackle this myself with help from some friends, and a friend of my dad who built his own pool in himself (he bought all the materials: steel, liner, vermiculite, etc and had the pigsty dug and did everything himself).
I'd use the pool company program as a guide - that is if folks on this forum agree that it is a good plan.

I approximate I would not replace the fiberglass stairs jsut as the pool visitor suggested, and instead install the liner over the stairs.
I still question the installation of the new bead receiver, or extrusion as he called it, onto the aluminum coping. This puts the liner higher up by about three-4 inches. Still, the top border of the stairs is very close to the top edge of the coping, so that would permit all of the new bead recevier to line up nicely along the edge.

Any advice would exist greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony

TonyV

Hither are a couple of pictures of the steps, also showing the coping, and the skimmer.

[zipper=one:ykn926su]steps2.JPG[/attachment:ykn926su][zipper=0:ykn926su]skimmer2.JPG[/attachment:ykn926su]

waste

Hey Tony, sad I wasn't on line last night

I didn't become home til after viii:00 and the wife told me in no uncertain terms that she expected me to spend some fourth dimension with her :whip:

My 'genu jerk' reaction to putting receiver ON existing coping and linering over pre-fab stairs is - don't exercise it! (However, part of this may just be because I've never seen nor heard of doing them earlier) You're planning on a new deck anyhow, so jackhammer out the erstwhile deck and rip out the one-time coping :hammer: The stairs should either exist replaced or resurfaced (there are companies that tin do that :wink: ) - if you lot keep the stairs, you'll need new gaskets and faceplates. I strongly incertitude that the liner manufacturer could produce step liners for those curves and the protrusion into the pool that would get in without wrinkles or premature seam failure! Also, his fear of the new steps are unfounded, provided you lot program on going BBB and keeping on top of your pool chemical science :goodjob: You've already mentioned the result with the safety embrace...

As for replacing the plumbing every bit a thing of class - that's a nice thought, but

I would only pressure test the lines and simply replace any that were bad. Unremarkably when we rehab a pool the way you're talking about, we will redo all the plumbing, but that'south but because nosotros reconfigure the unabridged puddle plumbing (going from 1 skimmer and 2 returns to 2 skimmers, 2 low suctions and ~ 8 returns, loftier and depression). {speaking of which, Casey I am sooo deplorable not to go back to you even so on your proposed plumbing :hammer:

- I only haven't had whatsoever time to interruption out the Crayolas and accept a pic of the "art"}

It's your puddle, you can handle this whatsoever way yous want to and I'll nevertheless be here to offer tips and tricks on doing the work yourself, if that'south the way you want to get :thumleft: (I can not help you with pouring a cantilever deck - I've only done 1 and one of the forms failed, turning it into a nightmare :rant: ) Information technology helps that you've got a dude who did his own pool, and you sound very capable of using the basic tools that are required and said you had the manpower to help - with a few tips from me and others hither 8)

TonyV

Thanks again waste.
I have to concur with your assessment. I donâ€™t similar roofing things up â€" Iâ€™d rather supplant what needs to be replaced and make everything as all-time every bit it tin can be.

From what I take read, I think the best thing is for me to do the following, in this approximate order:

1. Remove cream wall protector covering
2. Sand down rust, treat with rust inhibitor, etc
3. Excavate old bull nose steps and install new cantilever steps
4. Install slice of steel over old skimmer cut-out
5. Cut a new pigsty for skimmer(due south) and install new skimmer(s)
six. Install new plumbing
7. Remove old aluminum coping/bead receiver
8. Install new bead receiver directly onto meridian of steel walls
9. Repair vermiculite
10. Install new cream on walls
11. Install new cream on shallow-end floor
12. Install new liner
xiii. Fill up pool and get filter started, etc.
14. Cascade new deck

Last weekend, I removed the liner, and dug out the skimmer.

The vermiculite has some soft spots, and there is almost 18-24 inches of ground water in the deep terminate. I have read that it is common to dig out a pit in the bottom of the hopper, install a human foot valve with pipe running up under the vermiculite, behind a wall panel and up to a pump. This can be used to drain the hopper for vermiculite installation and to keep the water out while the liner is installed.

Here is a diagram of the pool, showing the orientation and the skimmer and return locations.

[zipper=ane:254adyu1]puddle diagram.jpg[/attachment:254adyu1]

I was thinking it might brand sense to replace and move the existing skimmer (due to rusted steel wall), add together a skimmer to the other long edge of the pool, add an boosted suction line (there is no main drain in this puddle) and add a return or two. What would be a good configuration for plumbing? What size pipe: i.5 inch? 2 inch? All individual runs or couple some together?

Vermiculite: There are lots of roots in the shallow finish, a couple of voids and some bumps around the side slopes into the hopper. What is the all-time style to address this? Does it make sense to scrape it downwards Â½ inch or so and exercise a new thin coating over the unabridged surface, or just fill the voids?

[attachment=0:254adyu1]IMG_3751.JPG[/attachment:254adyu1]

New steps: What is a expert source/brand ? I found these Sweetwater steps online: http://www.poolwarehouse.com/inground-puddle-step.html
I was thinking of the model HS308 â€" eight human foot broad cantilever steps.

Cantilever bead receiver: what is the best material: plastic or aluminum? I found these two:

http://www.poolwarehouse.com/swimmingpoolkitcoping.html (cantilever)

http://linertrack.com/2liner-trac.aspx

Thanks again for all the great assist that is offered on this bully site.

-Tony V.

waste

Tony, that's a lot of piece of work and a lot of questions :mrgreen:

Let me kickoff with the question I tin can't answer at this betoken - "what cantilever receiver to use?" Are you going to cascade the deck yourself? If not, talk to whoever is going to pour it every bit to what they want to work with (* there is a style of receiver available that has 2 tracks 1 for the liner and the other for the cantilever grade ) When nosotros do concrete cantilever decks, we build the puddle and then wait until the basis has settled and the deck is poured before dropping the liner (deck guys are VERY! messy and stuff e'er ends up in the pool, as well sometimes they demand to put up scaffolding in the pool to practise the cantilever - which is a little difficult in a pool total of water :wink: )

The rest of your plan sounds good :goodjob: , merely I tin can give a 'tweak' to some of the things you lot plan. I just posted some pics here on plumbing layout.

I'll catch up with you on the vermiculite, water trouble and other stuff later 8)

Let me know about what's going on with what I've posted here and well address the rest :goodjob:

TonyV

Cheers again waste material.

Ok, I empathize the plumbing layout, thanks.
I've been reseaching some prices of items I'll need. Tin can you tell me if this sounds right?

This liner rails (ii tracks, 1 for cantilever form) appears to be $205.50 per viii foot length. For my xvi X 32 pool, I'd need eleven or 12 lenghts, that adds up to virtually $ii,300.00. Seems kinda steep?
http://linertrack.com/1916doubleliner-trac.aspx

I got a cost for the eight foot broad Sweetwater steps (http://world wide web.hydrapools.com/images/steps/hs308.jpg) of $i,399.00, including shipping. Does that sound reasonable?

Two more than questions:

Lights: how many for this size puddle? What kind of niche, PVC or stainless steel? What is a good low-cal?
Diving board: I currently have a diving board. Are at that place specific requirements that have changed for having a diving board?

I'grand also looking frontwards to hearing near what I should do about the vermiculite, and ground h2o.

Geez, I got a lot of work ahead...

Thank you,
Tony

TonyV

Ok, I've been away for a while. I was decorated with traveling for work and almost of our summertime here in New England was a wash out anyway.
So on my puddle rehab, I removed the concrete deck terminal Thursday, and excavated the old steps on Friday. Everything was going fine.
Today, a friend helped me lower the new stairs into the pool. But to see, we tried to put the new steps into identify, and just as waste had warned, the pool is non square and the step opening is about ane inch too minor. Now what? Should I cutting dorsum the un-square side of the shallow end wall past 1 inch to accomodate the lack of squareness and attach a new U channel slice of aluminum to support the wall.

A few other items that will be coming upward presently:

Vermiculite: A lot of the puddle lesser has divots, small holes, soft spots, etc. Should I remove all of the vermiculite and replace it with new, or try to repair what is there at present? There seems to exist parts that are still clammy, fifty-fifty after many days of sun exposure. And, there is still about 6 inches of ground water in the deep end hopper.

Concrete deck pour: I was planning on a cantilever deck pour, merely not until next spring to let the ground settle over the wintertime. The bead reciever I have simply has i track, not 2 like I have seen. Tin cantilever forms be fastened to a 1 track bead receiver with a liner installed ?

Cheers, any advice is greatly appreciated.
Tony

waste

Hey Tony, good to see yous back :wave:

You've got a good bit of piece of work ahead of yous :roll:

Starting with the stairs, mensurate top and bottom of the opening, in that location's a chance yous can 'finagle' the steps in. What we did, one time we only had the problem at the top of the opening, was to use 2 sledge hammers to 'crimp' the panel a footling (apply 1 sledge as a 'beater' to protect the console and trounce the sh*t out of information technology with the other, until the steps would fit.) The steps accept to go in PERFECTLY straight if you do this, there just isn't any room for slop! Equally they crimped a little, we used a grinder to have off the ~ 1/ sixteen" needed to brand enough room for them. Beat and measure, once more and again, until the steps volition fit the opening.

Alternately, yous tin remove one of the side panels (looks like you've got 4' panels on either side of the stair) and buy a series of smaller panels to fill in - like a 3' console a vi" panel and a 5" panel- which would give you the inch you need. You'd need "A" braces to straighten them properly, only if you're an inch shy top to lesser, this would be easier.

The stairs are a large problem, but can be dealt with if you accept the manpower - unfortunately, the cantilever deck is something only the masons can tell y'all what to practise well-nigh. I'm not sure if they tin can pour one with the liner in place if y'all don't take the double receiver :? A

possible solution would be to bleed the pool a couple of feet and remove the liner from the dewdrop so they could use that for their forms (use duct tape to keep the liner from falling in the water - but it will anyway :evil:

)

Is the unabridged floor trashed? If in that location are dips and humps simply in the shallow end, a surface glaze would do (just call back to order the liner a trivial shallower than the present depth). The soft spots need to be replaced, all the cement has washed out of the vermiculite and it will never exist solid over again You too need to deal with the ground h2o - I can tell you a couple means of doing information technology - by whatever chance is your puddle at the lesser of a hill?

I'll let this percolate for you - as I said before, I Volition be here to assistance you with your project! :cheers:

TonyV

Howdy Waste. Thanks again for all your nifty information.
To fix the step result, I was able to dig out one of the 4 pes sections, unbolt it from the corner, and drill new holes in the corner angle steel. This allowed me to shift it by ane inch and make the step opening exacting 8 anxiety.

Next I will install the steps and pour a concrete neckband effectually the steps and the entire shallow finish side, since I have it all excavated anyhow.

I'one thousand very glad to hear that I don't demand to remove the entire puddle flooring. A lot of information technology is quite solid, just in that location are definitely a lot of soft spots..

I am planning to pour the deck before working on the pool floor, then hopefully that volition brand that procedure much easier.

Ground water: the pool is not at the bottom of a colina. I read somewhere on a pool installation web site that one way to deal with the ground water is to dig a hole in the hopper, cleave a trench upwards the hopper wall, under the steel panel and install piping and a foot valve. Connect the pipe to a pump, and you can drain the footing water easily at present and in the time to come, if the liner needs to be replaced again.
Does this sound similar a proficient plan?

I will as well be posting my program for plumbing presently for your expert advice.

Thank you!
Tony

waste

Tony, very glad to hear you plant the 1" you needed :goodjob:

The footing water control y'all speak of is what I've always referred to equally a 'well bespeak' , just be sure to take lots of gravel where the pipe is nether the flooring and utilize some 'weed block' cloth mesh to keep all but the smallest debris out of the pipe. If you don't want this line running under the liner, you lot can dig a pigsty, exterior the deck area, ~ i -2' lower than the bottom of the pool, line the lesser 1' with gravel and so put the pipe in (recollect the weed block mesh) and fill up the pigsty in with gravel to ~ 1' below the footing level and fill the remainder with loam and replant the grass.

It sounds like the project is progressing nicely If you need more from me/ u.s.a. on what and how to practise the balance - we'll be here for you :-D

TonyV

Okay, update:
I have the new steps installed, and after a lot of tweaking to get everything to line upwardly properly, it looks pretty good. I bolted a heavy duty U-aqueduct piece of aluminum inside the walls adjacent to the steps to help support the steel panels that take some rust decay. The panels themselves are fine, exept for a line of decay right where the onetime level of backfill stopped and rain must accept pooled, etc.
Final Sunday I poured a bound beam effectually the stride supports and the shallow cease walls. Strangely, there was no jump before installed before...

The installation seemed to accept come out great. Everything is level, direct, and foursquare.
Now that the concrete has had a few days to cure, I want to dorsum fill up the expanse that I excavated to replace the steps. The instructions for the stairs says to utilize non-compactable textile (i.due east. no clay, world, clay, etc.). The company that sold me the steps says that they fill the entire surface area under the steps with solid concrete. I don't think that is entirely necessary, as the old steps were only back filled with earth. Please see the pictures below. I have some left over 3/4 " beat stone that may work well for this. Do you retrieve the crushed stone is practiced to back make full the surface area?

Next, I will mail my plumbing questions...

Thanks againt to waste material for all his input, and everyone else commenting and showing interest in my projection.

How To Repair Inground Pool Steel Wall

Vinyl Pool Steel Wall Repair And Step Replacement

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